Why does the AAT have so much power?

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide checks
and balances to the Gov.

Post by felix
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to kick
out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal
overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a role
in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some had
travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in Australia
despite being caught taking trips back to the country they left in fear
of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

hector

2017-05-22 01:45:46 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide checks
and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

de chucka

2017-05-22 05:28:28 UTC

Post by hector

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide
checks and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

No by providing checks and balances to the Gov.

Pelican

2017-05-22 05:51:59 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide
checks and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

No by providing checks and balances to the Gov.

The "government", means the executive government. The AAT is part of
the executive government. Checks and balances are applied by the other
two limbs of government ie the judiciary and the legislature. Those two
limbs are external review mechanisms of the executive government.

The AAT is merely part of the internal review mechanisms of the
executive government.

de chucka

2017-05-22 06:01:12 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide
checks and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

No by providing checks and balances to the Gov.

The "government", means the executive government. The AAT is part of
the executive government. Checks and balances are applied by the other
two limbs of government ie the judiciary and the legislature. Those two
limbs are external review mechanisms of the executive government.
The AAT is merely part of the internal review mechanisms of the
executive government.

I agree it is a review process put in place by legislation to place
checks and balances on decisions

Pelican

2017-05-22 06:55:48 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide
checks and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

No by providing checks and balances to the Gov.

The "government", means the executive government. The AAT is part of
the executive government. Checks and balances are applied by the other
two limbs of government ie the judiciary and the legislature. Those two
limbs are external review mechanisms of the executive government.
The AAT is merely part of the internal review mechanisms of the
executive government.

I agree it is a review process put in place by legislation to place
checks and balances on decisions

If you want to throw those word around like that, you can, of course.
But be aware that the concept of "checks and balances" has been around
for centuries, and is reflected in the Australian constitution and the
constitution of each of the States. If you use it in a different and
much smaller context, it indicates a certain lack of awareness of
centuries of political thought.

I happen to think that the AAT is an important institution in giving
people cheap and quick access to administrative justice in the context
of reviewing those administrative decisions made in high-volume
situations, where getting the facts right is usually much more important
than the law. But a "check and balance" on the executive government it
is not.

de chucka

2017-05-22 20:30:01 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time. The AAT is there to provide
checks and balances to the Gov.

..by supporting non-citizens.

No by providing checks and balances to the Gov.

The "government", means the executive government. The AAT is part of
the executive government. Checks and balances are applied by the other
two limbs of government ie the judiciary and the legislature. Those two
limbs are external review mechanisms of the executive government.
The AAT is merely part of the internal review mechanisms of the
executive government.

I agree it is a review process put in place by legislation to place
checks and balances on decisions

The checks and balances between the executive and legislative are in
practice extremely limited becacause of our system and unlike in the US

Post by Pelican
I happen to think that the AAT is an important institution in giving
people cheap and quick access to administrative justice in the context
of reviewing those administrative decisions made in high-volume
situations, where getting the facts right is usually much more important
than the law. But a "check and balance" on the executive government it
is not.

It is certainly a check on the executive and by giving a quick and cheap
access to a review to an Executive decision it balances the 'power'
between the Executive and the people. Of course it eventually it is up
to the the Judiciary

felix

2017-05-22 07:06:43 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time.

irrelevant. decisions that the elected government of the day make should
stand, subject only to the constitution and the courts

Post by de chucka
The AAT is there to provide checks and balances to the Gov.

well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-22 20:49:36 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time.

irrelevant. decisions that the elected government of the day make should
stand, subject only to the constitution and the courts

If the AAT didn't exist these things would end up in the Federal Courts
with the added cost and the choking up of the Court. It is a good idea
to have system to check on the Executive before it gets to the Courts.
Remember both sides can appeal to the Federal court if they think the
law hasn't been applied

t

Post by de chucka
The AAT is there to provide checks and balances to the Gov.

well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

felix

2017-05-23 00:17:36 UTC

We also don't vote for the Minister, even if s/he is there at election
time s/he can be changed at any time.

irrelevant. decisions that the elected government of the day make should
stand, subject only to the constitution and the courts

If the AAT didn't exist these things would end up in the Federal
Courts with the added cost and the choking up of the Court. It is a
good idea to have system to check on the Executive before it gets to
the Courts. Remember both sides can appeal to the Federal court if
they think the law hasn't been applied
t

Post by de chucka
The AAT is there to provide checks and balances to the Gov.

well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 00:51:10 UTC

snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly? Are you accusing all of
the 160+ members of the different tribunals as biased and do you think
Hon Justice John Logan's appointment will suddenly change the facts that
they see?

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 01:35:48 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t. The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

de chucka

2017-05-23 01:40:07 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 04:18:55 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

de chucka

2017-05-23 04:21:49 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

So you've got nothing except you don't like their decisions

felix

2017-05-23 04:53:08 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different
tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

So you've got nothing except you don't like their decisions

you're claiming the AAT is right, and the minister got it wrong, so YOU
need to supply evidence of that.

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 05:06:44 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different
tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

So you've got nothing except you don't like their decisions

you're claiming the AAT is right, and the minister got it wrong, so YOU
need to supply evidence of that.

As I have stated before the Minister can appeal the decisions if he
thinks they are wrong in law ( there a couple I think he should ) but I
have seen no great movement to overturn the AAT decisions.

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 05:02:09 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

So you've got nothing except you don't like their decisions

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

There isnt even the remotest possibility that any govt dept
could be getting it wrong 40% of the time. It has to be the
most flagrant bias involved.

de chucka

2017-05-23 05:07:30 UTC

Post by de chucka
snip

Post by felix
well they're doing a bloody lousy job of it!

Why? because you disagree on some of their decisions?

any sensible person would. perhaps you can explain why they overturn so
many deportation cases, except for their political bias (agenda?) of course

Because Dutton didn't apply the facts correctly?

Pigs arse he didn’t.

Off course he did the AAT said so :-)

The AAT said nothing of the sort.

Post by de chucka
The arsehole that claimed he was at risk of execution

Post by Rod Speed
if he returned to where he came from was obviously lying given that he
was happy to go back there multiple times voluntarily.

Post by de chucka
Are you accusing all of the 160+ members of the different
tribunals as
biased

Nope, just the ones that knocked back most of the 39% of kickouts.

Please supply your evidence

Its there in front of your fucking nose, 39%

So you've got nothing except you don't like their decisions

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
There isnt even the remotest possibility that any govt dept
could be getting it wrong 40% of the time. It has to be the
most flagrant bias involved.

They follow what the Minister directs.

Blue Peeler

2017-05-21 23:41:25 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..

Because Felix in this land we have a system of law (Came from a place
called Westminster) where:-

We have:-

The courts to deliver justice and safeguard the Law.

The Parliament to make laws (which have to be within their power to
make and generally have to be consistent with past laws, unless of
course the intent is to extinguish the past law, and the Parliament
actually has the power to do so.

The executive - to actually do stuff, you know like fill all those
building built for public servants.

Now if a minister makes a decision that is wrong in law, then the
Judiciary has the power to override it (and the AAT whilst not
constituted as a court, has many of the powers of a court and that
includes reversing decisions by the executive that are "ultra-vires".
(When a minister makes a decision on a matter within his control, he is
acting administratively BTW).

If parliament can't get the executive to do what they want, all they
need do is change the law - if they can.

Were that not the case, we would no longer be living in a democracy but
in a dictatorship.

if that appeals to you, there are many to choose from, some quite close
geographically and I am sure that a crowd-funding proposal to assist
your immigration would work quite nicely.

Rod Speed

2017-05-22 00:07:46 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT.

Yes.

Post by felix
why should they have power to overturn ministerial decisions?..

Because the courts need to be able to do that
when the minister fucks up badly enough.

Post by felix
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to kick
out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal
overturning the deportation decision."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a role in
the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some had travelled
to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the Administrative
Appeals Tribunal last year."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in Australia
despite being caught taking trips back to the country they left in fear of
their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different mindset
about turning criminals loose on the public

You havent established that any of them have ever done anything like that.

felix

2017-05-22 08:37:38 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT.

Yes.

Post by felix
why should they have power to overturn ministerial decisions?..

Because the courts need to be able to do that
when the minister fucks up badly enough.

Post by felix
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

You havent established that any of them have ever done anything like that.

yep, fair call, it's the courts that do that

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-22 20:50:39 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT.

Yes.

Post by felix
why should they have power to overturn ministerial decisions?..

Because the courts need to be able to do that
when the minister fucks up badly enough.

The AAT isn't a Court

Sylvia Else

2017-05-22 01:06:45 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction. The
numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are made
by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil servants
are doing their job correctly.

Sylvia.

de chucka

2017-05-22 05:29:33 UTC

The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

Fran

2017-05-22 05:45:42 UTC

The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

Indeed, but she is probably correct when she says that the Minister
would not have personally made the decisions that were challenged.

Trevor

2017-05-22 10:35:56 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for any
mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public are
usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(

Trevor.

felix

2017-05-23 00:14:43 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 00:21:24 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 01:30:13 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.

The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

de chucka

2017-05-23 01:35:25 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 04:17:39 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly under
his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

de chucka

2017-05-23 04:22:59 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

No need to howl we have the AAT to overturn the wrongs

felix

2017-05-23 04:53:41 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents
out.
:-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

No need to howl we have the AAT to overturn the wrongs

they need to overturn you!

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 05:07:09 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents
out.
:-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

No need to howl we have the AAT to overturn the wrongs

they need to overturn you!

Not possible. He's so obscenely obese and full of shit that
overturning him isnt even possible with one of these.
Loading Image...

de chucka

2017-05-23 05:13:47 UTC

sni

p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg

Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for overturning
things however

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 06:17:35 UTC

Post by de chucka
sni
p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg
Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for overturning
things however

Wrong, as always.

andy memory

2017-05-23 14:14:41 UTC

Post by de chucka
sni
p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg
Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for
overturning things however

Wrong, as always.

Hawsers on one side, lift - over.

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 18:16:17 UTC

Post by andy memory

Post by de chucka
sni
p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg
Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for overturning
things however

Wrong, as always.

Hawsers on one side, lift - over.

Precisely. In fact that’s the best way to overturn something
that is roughly round like that immense pile of shit.

andy memory

2017-05-23 14:15:14 UTC

Post by de chucka
sni
p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg
Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for overturning
things however

What makes you do stupid?

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 18:16:48 UTC

Post by andy memory

Post by de chucka
sni
p> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg
Wow that is what I call a boys toy. Not really suitable for overturning
things however

What makes you do stupid?

The ear to ear dog shit.

felix

2017-05-23 05:24:23 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster
thingo
again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO
repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the
incompetents out.
:-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no
surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

No need to howl we have the AAT to overturn the wrongs

they need to overturn you!

Not possible. He's so obscenely obese and full of shit that
overturning him isnt even possible with one of these.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/2190490576_ff979f424a_o.jpg

LOL!

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

Rod Speed

2017-05-23 05:03:15 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(
Trevor.

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

and an ex- AG so please list his blatant corruption

No one said anything about blatant corruption except you.
The minister said POLITICS and he is obviously right about
that when a THIRD of the decisions have been cancelled.

Or he and his staff/public service aren't applying the law correctly
under his instructions

No evidence of that. If that was what was happening, everyone would
be howling about that and they arent, so it isnt what is happening.

No need to howl we have the AAT to overturn the wrongs

If any govt dept was getting it wrong 40% of the time, the howling would be
deafening.

Trevor

2017-05-23 06:40:13 UTC

Post by de chucka
The buck stops with the Minister, you know that Westminster thingo again

The $Bucks stop with the minister you mean, but NO repercussions for
any mistakes or even blatant corruption in many cases. And the public
are usually too stupid to do the job of voting the incompetents out. :-(

the outgoing head of the AAT is a Gillard appointee. no surprise there

Right, and no surprise all Liberal appointees of government departments
are just as bad.
Both major parties full of bloody corrupt career politicians! Only
morons think one side or the other is perfect! (or even half way
acceptable) :-(

Trevor.

felix

2017-05-22 07:19:13 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

it would seem to me that the public servants are doing their job
correctly, but the AAT is not. surely we can assume that there are sound
reasons why a decision is made to deport ppl. are we supposed to believe
that the government gets it wrong half of the time? or can we assume
that the AAT is biased, as appears to be the case

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

Blue Peeler

2017-05-22 07:59:52 UTC

Post by felix
it would seem to me that the public servants are doing their job
correctly, but the AAT is not. surely we can assume that there are
sound reasons why a decision is made to deport ppl. are we supposed
to believe that the government gets it wrong half of the time? or can
we assume that the AAT is biased, as appears to be the case

It would be easier and probably safer ground to simply assume that you
are not well informed enough to understand the issues - the nonsense
advertised in your sig tends to suggest that view is correct.

Pelican

2017-05-22 08:08:37 UTC

Post by Blue Peeler

We can all be assured that felix hasn't bothered to read any of those
AAT decisions, not one.

felix

2017-05-23 00:22:48 UTC

Post by Blue Peeler

feel free anytime to prove anything there is wrong

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

Ördög

2017-05-22 08:08:47 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power to
overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-

welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-
story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1

Post by felix
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are made
by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil servants
are doing their job correctly.

it would seem to me that the public servants are doing their job
correctly, but the AAT is not. surely we can assume that there are sound
reasons why a decision is made to deport ppl.

They have not yet deported you officially. Big mistake.
Hopefully this error now will be remedied.
Should you ever attempt to return from your self imposed Trump and/or
Brexit land exile than up with you to indefinite off-shore detention.

:P

--
Ördög (Your scary shadow that says "Boo" in the dark)

de chucka

2017-05-22 20:52:26 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

I would suggest that the public service on the instructions of the
Minister do get it wrong

felix

2017-05-23 00:18:36 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

I would suggest that the public service on the instructions of the
Minister do get it wrong

half of the time? I suggest not

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 00:24:49 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

I would suggest that the public service on the instructions of the
Minister do get it wrong

half of the time? I suggest not

Seems they do looking at the AAT figures

Blue Peeler

2017-05-23 03:58:22 UTC

Post by de chucka
I would suggest that the public service on the instructions of the
Minister do get it wrong

half of the time? I suggest not

Well Fetid, you were a public servant and are the poster boy for
"getting it wrong". Monster Cables, 90mph in 2nd gear EK etc.

Fran

2017-05-23 01:25:36 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

I would suggest that the public service on the instructions of the
Minister do get it wrong

Indeed!!!!!!!!!

Gordon Levi

2017-05-23 06:26:25 UTC

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

You assume that the AAT gets it wrong because of your bias. You have
not read any of the judgments to confirm your view. I assume that the
Department of Immigration and Border Protection Minister gets it wrong
because of my bias. I have also not read any AAT judgments that
confirm my view. It is clear that statements by Minister Dutton only
emphasise keeping people out. Even the name of the Department
indicates that it is likely the Department favours decisions to deport
people even if they are not strictly correct.

felix

2017-05-23 08:35:59 UTC

Post by Gordon Levi

The idea that these decisions are made by the minister is a fiction.
The numbers involved are much too high for it to be possible for the
minister to be making the decisions. In reality, the decisions are
made by civil servants. The AAT is just making sure that the civil
servants are doing their job correctly.

yeah! let's keep em all here!. let's import more muslims. lets see how
many ppl they can kill..

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

Trevor

2017-05-22 10:30:25 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power to
overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to kick
out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal
overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a role
in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some had
travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in Australia
despite being caught taking trips back to the country they left in fear
of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

So "39 per cent of decisions made by the Immigration Minister or his
delegate were overturned by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal last
year." That means 61% were NOT overturned! Doesn't seem that bad, but
the government would always prefer to be a complete dictatorship I guess.

Trevor.

felix

2017-05-23 00:20:42 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Post by Trevor
but the government would always prefer to be a complete dictatorship I
guess.
Trevor.

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 00:26:06 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Hey you told me over a 1/2 got overturned

felix

2017-05-23 01:55:11 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Hey you told me over a 1/2 got overturned

it's right there above (first link, since you obviously need new
glasses) . and read the articles and get the full story, before shooting
your mouth off

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 02:06:38 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Hey you told me over a 1/2 got overturned

it's right there above (first link, since you obviously need new
glasses) . and read the articles and get the full story, before shooting
your mouth off

:-) you seem to have changed you tune in other postd

felix

2017-05-23 04:29:45 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Hey you told me over a 1/2 got overturned

it's right there above (first link, since you obviously need new
glasses) . and read the articles and get the full story, before shooting
your mouth off

:-) you seem to have changed you tune in other postd

I'm not changing anything. I'm just quoting the links

--
"Multiculturanism equals white ethnocide"
http://thereligionofpeace.com
http://www.barenakedislam.com/
http://www.siotw.org

de chucka

2017-05-23 04:31:18 UTC

Post by felix
We vote for the Government, not the AAT. why should they have power
to overturn ministerial decisions?..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
" HALF of the illegal boat people the Coalition Government tried to
kick out of Australia have been saved by the Administrative Appeals
Tribunal overturning the deportation decision."
. . . . . .
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-16/peter-dutton-blames-politics-over-blocked-bid-to-deport-refugees/8530060
"Immigration Minister Peter Dutton has suggested politics played a
role in the blocking of his bid to deport six refugees, after some
had travelled to Iran to go "back for a holiday". "
. . . . . .
http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/05/17/one-third-visa-cancellations-overturned-appeal
" .. reported last week that 39 per cent of decisions made by the
Immigration Minister or his delegate were overturned by the
Administrative Appeals Tribunal last year."
. . . . . .
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/administrative-appeals-tribunal-welcomes-illegals-drug-dealers-to-australia/news-story/168565508e16302e9997d412bce8dda1
"Six Iranian boat people have been given permission to stay in
Australia despite being caught taking trips back to the country they
left in fear of their lives."
. . . . . .
If the idiots who make these decisions overturning government rulings
became the victims of crime themselves instead of other innocent
Australians - if they were victims of violent home invasions, car
jackings, bashings, etc., - hopefully they would have a different
mindset about turning criminals loose on the public

ya think? so you suggest the government is that incompetent they get
more than a third of the cases wrong?

Hey you told me over a 1/2 got overturned

it's right there above (first link, since you obviously need new
glasses) . and read the articles and get the full story, before shooting
your mouth off

:-) you seem to have changed you tune in other postd

I'm not changing anything. I'm just quoting the links

sorry wrong person

Trevor

2017-05-23 06:47:50 UTC